Monday, August 29, 2016

Fixing a Samsung Ice Maker

One of the most popular posts on this blog is the “How to Defrost a Samsung Ice Maker” post.  In that post I outline how to defrost your Samsung Ice Maker using a “secret code” on your control panel.  You shouldn’t need to do that every week, but a lot of people do, because the Samsung SZAB001TA1 ice maker (which exists in refrigerators like the RF263BEAEW) had serious issues when it left the factory.

Fortunately, the issues can be remedied.  Unfortunately, Samsung is keeping the information under wraps, and it is extremely difficult to find any information on the subject.  Hopefully this post will help those of you looking for answers.

So first, here again are the steps for defrosting your Samsung Ice Maker using the control panel on the front of your fridge:

  1. On the front panel display, press the Energy Saver and Refrigerator buttons at the same time for 8 seconds.  The display will switch to the Test Mode and the display will go dark (all buttons, etc., will go dark) .
  2. Press any button within 15 seconds after the display has gone dark to scroll through the Test Modes as follows:
    • Manual operation 1 (FF)
    • Manual operation 2 (0F-r)
    • Manual defrost of fresh food compartments (rd)
    • Manual defrost of fresh food and freezer compartments (fd)
    • Cancel (display goes completely dark)

“fd” is the one you want.  The defrost mode will cause the refrigerator to beep the entire time it’s in effect (pretty annoying) and will shut off after five minutes (I had to do it quite a few times to thaw everything out).

When the Geek Squad Tech came to fix our ice maker, he also used a hair dryer to speed things up, but be careful if you go this route as you can actually melt the plastic housing and components and cause greater issues than you had before by deforming the plastic in your ice maker.

There are four things that need to be changed to make this ice maker work properly.

  1. The water fill tube needs to be adjusted.
  2. The thin gap between the refrigerator wall and the ice maker housing (bottom side of ice maker against fridge wall) needs to be sealed.
  3. The ribs surrounding the ice room fan air duct need to be removed with a utility knife (they cause water to puddle in the duct).
  4. Foam should be installed on to of the ice maker housing around the water fill inlet.
  5. If you have an older control board, the control board should be upgraded.

These issues are covered in a service bulletin that went out to Samsung Service Techs.  I got to take a look at the four page PDF, but our tech was nervous about getting in trouble if I actually posted the document on the web, so he only let me look at the doc. on his phone.

Since then, the document has found it’s way to the web.  An anonymous user actually posted the Service Bulletin document number in the comments of my original post on this issue.  So now I have a copy of the PDF here: ASC20150717001 (if you don’t trust the link, just search the doc. title on Google). 

Looking at the service bulletin is the easiest way to address everything, but I’ll lay things out here as well (though in less detail).

So, issue #1, the fill tube.  In the back of your Samsung fridge you can see the fill tube sticking out the back of the refrigerator.  This tube has a tendencey to slip, and after that happens water starts pouring all over the ice maker instead of just into the ice tray.  Thus, the first step in fixing your ice maker is making sure this tube goes where it’s supposed to, and then making sure it stays put.  Oddly enough, the tube often slips to far in (not out) and causes water to splash all over the place, so usually you have to actually back the tube out a bit and then secure it.

Issue #2.  This is an easy fix.  Simply take a tube of silicone and seal the gap.  It seems hard to believe this would be an issue, but I guess it’s why Samsung didn’t catch the problem earlier, and it really makes a difference.

Issue #3. (see service bulletin)

Issue #4.  With the entire ice maker out of the refrigerator, cut a thin strip of foam and glue it (silicone works well) around the perimeter of the water inlet area.  See photo below.

20160409_121521

Issue #4.  When I got fed up with Samsung “tech” (really just a bunch of people who have NO IDEA what they’re talking about reading scripts on the phone) and went to Best Buy and they put me on the phone with a Geek Squad guy in Minnesota who REALLY knew what he was doing, he listened to what I had to say, realized I had done some research and figure out what was going on, and thus just ordered every possible part that might need to be replaced to fix the issue and had them all sent directly to my house so the parts would already be there when the tech arrived.  Freaking fantastic.  One of the things that got sent was a new controller board.  The board has a lot more ports and resistors and what not.  I took a photo of the new board, but I’m having a hard time locating it.  Here is a photo of the OLD board.

IMG_20160829_091844

For what it’s worth, Samsung “customer support” is not support at all.  I spent hours and hours going through the same process over and over again (the person on the other end insisting on reading their script and asking me irrelevant, inane questions ad nauseum).  Each time, they would tell me someone would call me back soon, and each time, after a couple of days I would call back and there would be no evidence that I had ever called and the number I had been given was linked to no information whatsoever.  It was pretty infuriating.  I had to laugh when weeks after the matter was resolved (via Geek Squad, NOT Samsung) I received a letter from Samsung asking if I would like to purchase extended warranty services from them.  Unbelievable.

Some additional photos of the ice maker problems and fixes…

20160409_11185120160409_11190620160409_11192120160409_121134

157 comments:

Russ said...

Thanks so much for posting all this info. My fridge just started having the same problem about a month ago. Owned it for 2 years. Called a service company to come out but now I think I'll try to solve the problem myself and save some money.

It always blows me away there are people out there like you making the effort to post stuff like this.

Thanks again!!

The Invisible said...

Glad to be of help, Russ. And thanks for your generosity. And yeah, I get so many answers about how to fix my car, my camera, my etc., etc. that I'm happy to post this stuff for others! It's just not always easy to find the "free" time to make it happen. Thanks again.

Unknown said...

What kind of foam did you use for around the water inlet? I'm thinking just some weather strip type stuff from lowes would work.

The Invisible said...

Yeah... he told me he just used whatever he had leftover from other jobs, but weatherstripping would work just fine and it's relatively cheap at Lowe's. I'd probably go with the EPDM (rubber) stuff just so it stands up to the moisture better than foam might. You could probably even use backer rod though (the foam stuff like a "noodle" pool toy that you use to fill in cracks before caulking) or even the closed-cell sill plate insulation (the blue roll that goes between your 2x4 base and the cinder block foundation) you used when framing a house.

Unknown said...

There's a button on the side of the ice maker at the top. What is this for??
Thanks in advance.
Steve

The Invisible said...

Supposedly it's a "reset" button to reset the ice cycle, but it has never done anything (at least nothing obvious) for me. Basically, it's one of the things you try if your ice cycle stops (and it's not because of an ice block). It resets the ice maker at the control board to make it start again.

Anonymous said...

THANK YOU! Followed the defrost instructions and worked great. Hoping to get out of all the other steps but reading the posts I don't see it happening. Thanks again for the awesome info!!

Anonymous said...

I've defrosted my ice maker numerous times and replaced the auger and main ice maker assembly on my Samsung in an attempt to fix this problem - all to no avail. Then I found this posting. My ice maker had three of the four problems listed on the bulletin. The water fill tube was pushed in too far and I needed to cut the ribs from the air duct cover. Now my ice maker works as it should - no more ice blocking the air duct, ice build-up in the main compartment, nor water pooling in the crisper!

Thank you so much for finding this solution and taking the time to post it!!!

Unknown said...

Here's my apparently unique situation. My fridge, model RF263BEAESR, manufactured in August of 2015, will only make one "tray" of ice and then stops. I did everything that was included in the 7/17/15 service bulletin (needed #1 and #3 but did #2 anyway). I hit the reset button on the ice maker, it makes one "tray" of ice (about 8 cubes) and stops. If I hit the reset button again it will make another 8 cubes and stop.

Is anybody else having this problem? So frustrating. The problem literally started 1 week after the warranty ran out.

ronb said...

Anonymous: your comment " I needed to cut the ribs from the air duct cover. " where is this, the fins at the front of the ice maker? thanks! And if ANYONE has a part number for the new control board I would REALLY appreciate it! I've been wrestling with this monster for almost a year now, done everything cited here, and need to get it fixed.

Bruce Williams, Cary, NC said...

Thanks so much to you and all for the multiple posts on this vexing problem!

About once a month when the ice maker quit, we were defrosting the ice and frost build up on the bottom of the ice maker.

We have a Samsung RF30BED8SR/AA frig with ice maker Model Number SZAB001TA1 DA97-12317A. It is about four years old and this problem just started about six months ago.

Based on the advice from you and others on the blog, we pulled the ice maker and there was a HUGE block of ice around the refrigerate tubes coming from the back of the frig. It was so big it extended around the side of the enclosure.

Working on the fixes now and have contacted the class action lawsuit.

Thanks again!

Danielle said...

First, thanks for your post on what to check. After defrosting , removing ice maker, and ice lodged in the back and in the ice maker itself, put it all back together, came home from work and same issue. Water is going into the ice maker and over edges and freezing.
Any suggestions?

The Invisible said...

After defrosting and removing the ice, did you complete *any* of the other suggestions (the way you actually *fix* the problem)? ;-)

Danielle said...

Yes, checked all and reset ice maker
I even took that apart to check reset button
Still same issue

Danielle said...

Btw, I have a rf267abrs model

The Invisible said...

It's not a matter of just checking something. You need to make modifications.

From the post:

1. The water fill tube needs to be adjusted.
2. The thin gap between the refrigerator wall and the ice maker housing (bottom side of ice maker against fridge wall) needs to be sealed.
3. The ribs surrounding the ice room fan air duct need to be removed with a utility knife (they cause water to puddle in the duct).
4. Foam should be installed on to of the ice maker housing around the water fill inlet.
5. If you have an older control board, the control board should be upgraded.

ronb said...

Still hoping someone can provide part number for new control board. Thx!!

The Invisible said...

Hi, Ron. I just found the biz card for the tech who repaired ours. I'm gonna e-mail him and see if there's anyway he can send me the part number.

Danielle said...

My fridge is 5 years old
This just started??

Daniel said...

Hello thank you posting this information. I have a Samsung RF28HFEDTSR and I've removed the ice maker before to reset it but of course it's still messing up and now I can't even pull the ice maker bucket out. Has anyone had this issue and if so, what did you to fix it? I want to try the fixes detailed on this page but I can't even get the stupid bucket out. I've tried heating it up with a hair dryer but it still won't come out. Help please!

Daniel said...

Also, is there a picture of the ribs that need to be cut off? Where are they at exactly? Thanks.

The Invisible said...

Yeah, mine froze completely shut once too. I just had to go through the defrost cycle a million times until I was able to remove teh bucket.

Regarding the ribs... there are pictures of everything in the Samsung service bulletin.

Daniel said...

Thank you very much for the reply. I think my fridge is slightly different than the specified directions for the defrost cycle. I can't get the test mode to show up to start the defrost cycle.

Anonymous said...

I just took mine apart. Same issues, etc.

I found that my problem was problem #3 - there was a big block of ice blocking the fan in the opening just below where that frozen u-shaped bar came out. I took the main ice-making section out, then if you just lift that tab on the back part (above the part that turns the ice crank) you can pull the whole bottom back section out, then clean everything out, dry it all, put it back together.

My unit doesn't really have the ribbed parts that are mentioned. Looks like this may just end up being an annual job that I have to do. Thanks, Samsung.

Meanwhile my Samsung VRT dryer is broken for the 100th time as well. I would not recommend Samsung appliances to my worst enemies. Junk.

Consumerized said...

Dan, does your new circuit board have a new part number? My ice maker stopped working and it smells like something burnt out on my refrigerators circuit board.

ronb said...

after last defrost, left maker and auger out of icebox, shut off ice maker, and 1 week in have ice allover base of refrigerant coil and into vent area above where defrost fan would be. appears to have nothing to do with making ice.....

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately I have the almost $4,000 model with built-in sodastream for sparkling water.
My ice maker showed these symptoms after 1 year--out of warranty so you can imagine how upset I am. I bought a new ice maker on Amazon and it lasted 6 months before doing the same thing again. Obviously several design flaws and not the actual ice maker are the problem.

I look forward to checking and applying these fixes. Thank you so much for this info as Samsung was useless and wanted $600 to extend my warranty. What a joke.

Anonymouse said...

Update:Guy with $4000 Sodastream model.

I had a noticeable 1/16" gap when shining a flashlight from below. My Home Depot did not have RTV silicone but I bought food grade "fish tank" silicone. Worked great! This should solve my slushy ice and the fridge "peeing" into the cup before dispensing ice.

My fill tube was also inserted too far. I also used weather seal foam as you suggested for intake on the ice maker. Thinking back, you probably only need it on the right side as the left side has pathways to the drain.

I shaved off the "ribs" with a utility knife. The air tunnel above the fan was frozen solid. It took me several hours of chiseling and a hair dryer to remove the ice.

It has been 5 days and my ice is now nice and "dry". I keep checking and there is no ice/frost buildup on the ice maker so far! THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this info.

Anonymous said...

I have a Samsung model RF25HMEDBSR/AA and have noticed slushy ice for about 2 weeks. today the water dispenser stopped working completely. I pulled out the ice maker and saw the dreaded frost! I guessed the frost had something to do with the water line to the dispenser - so I googled and found your blog! Great place but so sad to see this is such a common problem. My problem is that I'm trying to get to the "test mode" on the control panel to attempt to thaw out the area. Holding the energy saver and fridge buttons doesn't work. I do that and then press any button and the display with temp comes back up. Nothing to scroll. Do you have any idea of another way I can get to the defrost mode on my model? Thank you!!!

Unknown said...

I have the RF23HCEDBSR model, and also can't get it to go into the test mode. After 8 seconds on Fridge and Energy Saver buttons together, it goes dark, but as soon as another button is touched, the standard panel comes back. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Unknown said...

Similar to above...have the RF23HCEDBSR model. Slushy ice...all as already stated.

However, same problem, can't get into the TEST MODE. Follow directions, panel goes out after 8 sec., but as soon as a button is touched, standard panel comes back on. Any help greatly appreciated.

Unknown said...

Follow-up to my previous comment regarding my RF23HCEDBSR Samsung Refrigerator. I went through a chat session, and the only way to defrost according to the tech as to press the Freezer, Alarm and Fridge buttons all at once for about 5 seconds, and it displays "0 FF" which is apparently the Demo mode.

He said there is no "forced defrost" setting....don't know what to believe now.

Anyway, to take out of Demo mode, same buttons again resets.

Melodious said...

The defrost code is very interesting, but there is a much simpler way to do it. After struggling with this problem for quite a while, I tried turning off the ice, I then took the ice bin out of the fridge. It takes a couple of days but the ice softens and one can use a thin spatula or a wide implement of some sort and the ice is easy to get off. I have found I must do this every couple of weeks.
I too chose this machine after much research. It was the best available in my price range (I had hoped to find one much cheaper but they do not exist.) If you let it freeze up too much, the ice will actually get stuck after a dump, between the maker and the wall of the ice box. That is a problem.

Unknown said...

Thank you for all the information! I have been defrosting mine for a while now. I have a question about the tray. When the unit was new and you switched from ice to water you could hear what sounded like a flap or door close (assuming to seal the ice tray) Now I don't hear it and after closer examination it looks like the door/flap is staying open allowing the warmer refrigerator air to frost things up. Any thoughts?

The Invisible said...

Hi, Michael. My old fridge had that same issue, and I ended up purchasing a part off the web. Actually... now that I think about it... we actually had a guy out to do some repairs on our 1960's oven, and I mentioned the issue with the ice dispenser door. He looked up the part and had it sent to us, no charge. Local, independent businesses rock. Anyway, it ended up being a whole little motorized part, not just a spring, so it may unfortunately be more involved on these Samsungs.

The Invisible said...

I made an appointment with Geek Squad two weeks ago, and today is finally the day they come out to the house. We haven't had *any* ice for two weeks. I couldn't take the beeping sound of the defrost cycle any longer. I had been defrosting the fridge every couple of days for several months. It just got to be too much for our nerves to handle. There is usually a puddle of water on the floor in front of the ice dispenser flap (it has ruined our floating cork floor). There is almost always a pool of water in the bottom drawer of the refrigerator as well. It's great for disintegrated any cardboard or paper packaging on the food in that drawer. :-\ When the Geek Squad guy called this morning, he said there were some updates to the Samsung Bulletin that he would implement, so I'll update this post with those "official" Samsung updates when I have them. I'll also try to get a pic of the controller board (and the part number) while he's working on the fridge.

Steeve said...

Thanks for posting this information. I discovered the fan chamber completely blocked with ice. I have cleared the opening and applied the field fix listed in the manual you provided. Hope this solves my issues.

Kaitlyn Bone said...

I've done all the steps to manual defrost. Do I need to do anything to get it out of this mode?

Anonymous said...

Hey so to confirm @TheInvisible you are still having issues even after applying these fixes? We just ran into this issue this on a new "outlet" version this past week and it's been tons of fun. Wondering whether we should just return it or chance it.

The Invisible said...

Definitely return it while you have the chance! There is no fix. All of the "fixes" on the bulletins from Samsung will never provide a permanent fix. Luckily I bought the 5 Year qeek squad protection and was able to return the fridge under the "lemon clause" after Geek Squad came to my house 4 times within one year. Get rid of the Samsung and buy a Whirlpool (or anything but Samsung).

Unknown said...

Really sad that the ice maker is soooo bad, because I really like pretty much everything else about the refrigerator.

I finally just broke down, turned the ice maker off completely and bought a separate ice maker. We had considered putting one in when we had the kitchen re-done last year, but thought we would be OK. Well, we know how that turned out. Fortunately, the laundry room right off the kitchen had room, and I ran the water line off my utility sink.

So now I have all the ice I need.

Will definitely do more research next time I buy a refrigerator.

Anonymous said...

To @John Medved, I have the same issue. I have a RF28HFEDBSR, and started having issue with the ice maker after it froze solid in a big block of ice. I did the fd defrost, and was able to take it out. Let it thaw completly, dried out all parts, and put it back. At the time, I didn't knew about this thread and the service bulletin.

After putting it back, and hitting reset, it did a single tray and then stops. Reset, and then sometime it'll make another single tray and stops. Most of the time it doesn't.

I don't think I have an issue with the SB issue #1 (water line inserted too far), I am not able to check, I haven,t found a mirror that'll help me see.

I have no ice arround the square duck, I will do the ridge cutting anyway.

Still, no ice on a regular basis.

I won't bother to call samsung or any repear man, from what I've read, it's helpless...

Unknown said...

As I posted earlier I am having the same troubles. I read the posts here and went thru the service bulletin. I sealed the seam between the bottom left corner of the ice maker and the refrigerator wall as described in the bulletin. I sealed both inside and outside the ice maker along the seam. I believe it has helped although it still freezes up. It isn't as bad. I now schedule a half hour once a month and defrost the ice maker. It isn't the greatest solution but by doing it on a regular basis it is easy and simple to do, short of replacing the frig.

samsungFAIL said...

Has anybody been able to get hold of the update to the service bulletin that The Invisible said the Geek Squad told him about??

Anything new on this? my model starts with RFED28 (that's from memory so it could be off!) I had mine “fixed” at about 1.5 years old but in about 6 months the problem came back. When I think of it I scrape off the frosty layer that accumulates above the ice bin, then the day comes when I realize I am out of ice, then I have to scrape it all off and stick the hair dryer in there. Sometimes it last longer than others. Is it possible that I get some of the ice out but not all (from behind the icemaker)? I have never actually removed it. Also, when it is building up I do get water that dribbles from the ice dispenser before the ice comes. That is now my clue to check it. One time it was so frozen that I think the fan stopped turning because the fridge compartment itself got warmer but was normal after I melted the ice. I do use the dryer on high because it takes so long!!

The repairman told me that there was a problem with them originally but the new control board he was installing was supposed to have fixed it. Sounds like it is not fixable because it’s just a design flaw right?

Is it best to remove the maker to thaw it? How long of a project is it and what are the parts of the process where I could go wrong?

OH yes, the repair guy I used was good, problem is he doesn’t do Samsung or LG anymore. Said Samsung parts took too long to get and too many call backs! I had trouble finding him and doubt I could even find someone now. He said Samsung is fine for electronics, but stay away from their appliances. I would sell it if I could think of a good reason to give a buyer as to why I’m selling a 3 yr old fridge…

Any news on a class action suit because I am so in....There was one on Sony TV's that failed....they were Sony Wega from approx 2005 (google sony blue blob). Some people sued in small claims as well...Those TV's got a problem in only a few years. Sony did extend the warranty for that problem to approx 4 years. This seems like it would be similar type of case. I got half of my $800 repair covered even though it was after 4 years because I didn't receive notice...

samsungFAIL said...

Found this info about class action and I emailed them. They responded today asking if I have time this week to discuss it!
http://kohnswift.com/2017/03/16/ksg-files-class-action-complaint-against-samsung-for-refrigerators-with-defective-ice-makers/

Unknown said...

This is all so discouraging. I bought this refrigerator last July and had it delivered and installed in August (2016). I've loved everything about it until we started having a problem with the ice machine. I was just curious if anyone else has had trouble with a horribly foul smell when they're experiencing the ice machine not working. Ours is so bad that it almost makes me sick! I've taken everything out and cleaned and didn't find any obvious spills or anything that should be making the smell so I'm assuming it's something in the mechanical compartment.

I just filled out the request for service since it is still under warranty. I guess, after reading up, that's probably a pipe dream. Crap.

The Invisible said...

If you're still under warranty, be *extremely* persistent and diligent about contacting them and making sure they address the issue in an expedient manner. After they "fix" it, as soon as you start having an issue again, make sure you contact them *immediately.* If you can prove (document your calls and service) that you've had multiple issues within a short time period (usually four times within a year), often state and/or national "lemon laws" will force them to provide you with a replacement. The trick is getting it done before the warranty is up. It's a pain, but sincethere really is *NO FIX* for these issues, it's better than having to deal with a broken fridge for years. Also be sure to visit the place you purchased the appliance from and let a manager know what is going on. Seeing them face to face is important so they remember you and realize the issue is ongoing. Sometimes they'll even be a little more eager to help simply because they're sick of having to deal with you! ;-)

FairwayTrader said...

Thanks for this blog, I have been having this problem since my warranty expired in Aug 2015 and nothing from Samsung.

uncommon cents said...

hi, thanks for this blog. I have the issue where there is a noticable gap between the the ice box and and fridge wall and plan on atempting the silicone as soon As I track some down. that said, i have a nice chunk of ice at the back of the ice box. to access it, is there an easy way to remove the ice maker mechanism?

Rob the fridge fixer said...

I've read both your posts on this throughly, but I have many questions about your wording that are confusing me.
1. Fill tube.. On my fridge, the is a tube on the top left (looking into the ice maker area.) I'm not sure if you are saying the tube needs to be pulled downward, or back up? In /out is confusing (in towards ice tray, or in towards the fridge unit?)
2. Everyone needs to know they need to remove the fan/motor used for the ice dispenser. Another poster mentioned this, just press the white clip on the bottom in the center; it is directly below the metal screw drive linkage.

3. On my 2013 unit model rf20hfedbsr unit, to get to factory select mode, I had to press "freezer" and "lighting" buttons 8 seconds. Press any button until dF is displayed. I saw another blog showing the top left button and middle right buttons labeled something else and after trying every combination mentioned in this and other threads, I tried the location instead of the names.. So if someone else with newer unit can't find the right combo, try the physical locations.

4. Where is the control board? How do I get to it? I'd like to know if I need a new one..

Sonartech said...

In January of 2017, our Samsung 4-door Refrigerator model RF22K9381SG ice maker started producing slushy ice and water build-up into the exit chute, along with very slow ice production for several weeks before we called Samsung for service.

We’d get a ¼ cup of water, followed by 6 or 8 slushy ice cubes. After some cursory online research, we found instructions showing us how to “reset the icemaker”. Unfortunately, it didn’t help. After a week, Samsung contacted me and quizzed me on the phone to make sure I had a legitimate claim. They essentially walked me through the “reset-your-icemaker and call us back in 4 days”-drill, and after I told them I already did that, they told me that a service center would be contacting me to arrange an appointment. A few days later, A&E Factory Service called us, telling us they’d be out the next morning. When they came out, they essentially followed steps 1 & 2 of the service bulletin, and cleared out the ice plug clogging-up the air duct using a steam gun. That was all that technician did. A week later, the problem returned, so I filed my 2nd service call to Samsung, who once again put me through the questionnaire and scheduling drill, and a different A&E Factory Service tech was dispatched to our home. This technician re-adjusted the water inlet tube (again), and decided it was necessary to replace the entire ice maker module and the main controller circuit board "just because the service bulletin suggested to". He ordered these parts, having them sent to our home, and scheduled a return in three weeks to install the new hardware. During that wait, the ice maker failed once more, clogging up the cold air inlet and stopping production. A&E Returned as scheduled and installed the new ice maker module and the new controller board. We also re-adjusted our home water pressure from 80 PSI down to 60 PSI. Between the new hardware and the water pressure adjustments, the technician was absolutely confident that the problem would be fixed. Once again, the ice maker worked well for about 2 weeks, and has now once again clogged-up and stopped production. So, I'm calling Samsung AGAIN. This will be visit #4 to fix the never-ending ice maker problem.

The original thought as to why the problem was happening was that our home water pressure was too high at 80 PSI. It seems quite unusual that Samsung (apparently) doesn’t have any kind of flow restriction to limit water pressure entering the ice tray to prevent overfill and/or splashing, since this could obviously impact ice production. This alone seems like a critical design defect at the very least, given the problems being outlined in the service bulletin. The amount of water present in the tray is a critical variable for proper and consistent ice production, but it seems that Samsung have left the variable unchecked and open-ended. Nowhere in the owner’s manual does Samsung mention supported water pressures for proper ice production. (Even the simplest of shower heads has a cheap in-line flow restrictor!) Anyway, lowering our home water pressure to 60 PSI didn’t fix the problem, either, since it clogged again anyway even after that adjustment was made. So, it’s not (only) a water pressure problem.

In our case, the problem does seem to be centered around the flow of water from the inlet into the ice tray. It seems that the water “sprays” into the ice maker (regardless of water pressure or inlet tube position), splashing into the cold air duct, causing the air duct to eventually clog with ice and seal shut. This then inhibits cold air from entering the ice compartment, leading to slushy ice, water build-up in the bottom of the ice compartment, water in the ice outlet chute, and occasionally, water damage on the flooring in front of the refrigerator.

I think this is just a case of (even more) BAD SAMSUNG ENGINEERING that we're all being expected to pay the price for.

samsungFAIL said...

I finally got around to getting hubby to pull fridge out (I'm too short to get the leverage to move it!) and my grey fill tube is white, has no excess "loop" and is pushed into the hole to the point where the black line is visible but the top edge of the line seems to be partly inside the little grommet/spacer thing. I wasn't able to remove the icemaker because I didn't understand the posts about how to release it. THIS video helped me with my model. It was the freon tube holding it in that I hadn't understood without the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_OswjcmpnM

anyway, I pulled on the white tube from the back (without having removed the ice maker) and it would not BUDGE. Is there a trick to it? Does the ice maker have to be removed? It doesn't seem like it would have to be. The tubing is all clamped to the back and taped from the factory. I hope someone can respond about adjusting the fill tube.

J. Todd Newton said...

Thanks for this blog and posting the link to the service bulletin. After more than a year of ownership my Samsung French door fridge developed the dreaded ice maker issue (wet ice, water coming out when the ice dispenser was activated, etc). I had unplugged the fridge to defrost it and had put everything into a cooler when I ran across this blog. My full tube was tnot correctly positioned (issue #1). So I did everything in the service bulletin. The next day I had perfect ice and not a drop of water in the ice maker. Hopefully the issue stays resolved!

Will said...

Quick question. I've been fighting this for over a year now with my 4 door flex unit. Originally I was getting the vent filled with water. After trimming the bottom fins off the vent isn't filling up anymore, however ice is forming on the bottom of each side of the coil and growing until it blocks the vent. I suspect that water is splashing onto the coils somehow during the fill cycle. I used a dental mirror and adjusted the fill hose to be nearly flush with the back of the hole (it was right up against the front like the bulletin states is wrong) but I'm still getting the water buildup. I didn't see anywhere in the bulletin about putting foam or rubber around the fill funnel. Do you think that will solve the splashing issue (assuming that is the reason)? I haven't tried turning the water pressure down yet either but some of the comments suggest that didn't work. The funnel lining trick is the only one I haven't tried yet. Also, all of the removing and installing of the ice maker has now caused a slight 1 mm gap to appear in the foam where the coil comes out from being pulled down for removal over and over. Do I need to patch that with silicone?

Will said...

So... I've tried all of the fixes including lining the water funnel with foam and am still getting the ice buildup on the coolant loop just above the air duct. After seeing a post above by ronb who stated that he was getting ice buildup on the coolant loop even with the ice maker turned off, I've decided that it isn't water splashing that's building up but rather condensation on the coolant loop. My next attempt at fixing this is I have created two, one inch foam collars to cover the coolant loop where it goes into the foam block hoping to stop the condensation buildup on the coolant tube behind the ice maker. At a minimum, it should stop any runoff from above from insta-freezing to the coolant loop and pool into the bottom of the compartment if splashing is really the case.

Anonymous said...

UPDATE - My Anonymous posts above are 1/13/17 and 1/18/17 - Almost $4000 soda stream model
Sorry to report it still freezes up after all those fixes. I will say that sealing the gap has fixed my wet/slushy ice problem. It seems after a full defrost the problem comes back around 3 months.

Will said...

Well, even with the additional foam collars I'm still getting slow ice buildup on the underside of the plastic ring around the foam the coolant loop comes out of. At this rate I'll have an ice dam blocking the vent in a month. I have no idea where the moisture is coming from as it cannot be coming from the fill tube or funnel. We gave up and bought an LG.

nrg said...

Model: RF23J9011SR/AA
Four door samsung POS manufacture date Nov 2015.

Before purchasing this fridge, I knew about the Ice maker issue so I purchased the 2nd most expansive model (under the chef edition) hoping that all the problems were solved. Nope, wrong; 1.5 years later, the ice maker stopped working. I opened up the box and saw a huge blockage of ice buildup. Defrost and cleaned up thinking it fixed everything. Then the ice came out wet and not fully frozen for a whole month. I got fed up and found this blog. The entire vent in the back where the fan is was frozen shut. After removing the ice maker, I found a huge block of frozen ice in the back of the motor. I cleaned every thing up and looked over the posted PDF. Looks like they fixed the gap in the ice room because it's a whole different design(root cause #2). the hose adjustment (root cause #1) looks like the picture but I also pulled it up more. And the rib issue where you would have to cut (solution 3). I didn't see any issue with root cause #4.

after doing all this, running the fridge for 12hrs and making ice; I still find small buildup of ice in the back. Tiny specks of ice frozen in the opening of the fan. This means that over time the build up will get larger and plug up the opening (1.5years) and I'll be back to this same exact issue.

Thanks samsung. never again.

Anonymous said...

Model: RF23J9011SR/AA
Four door samsung POS manufacture date Nov 2015.

Before purchasing this fridge, I knew about the Ice maker issue so I purchased the 2nd most expansive model (under the chef edition) hoping that all the problems were solved. Nope, wrong; 1.5 years later, the ice maker stopped working. I opened up the box and saw a huge blockage of ice buildup. Defrost and cleaned up thinking it fixed everything. Then the ice came out wet and not fully frozen for a whole month. I got fed up and found this blog. The entire vent in the back where the fan is was frozen shut. After removing the ice maker, I found a huge block of frozen ice in the back of the motor. I cleaned every thing up and looked over the posted PDF. Looks like they fixed the gap in the ice room because it's a whole different design(root cause #2). the hose adjustment (root cause #1) looks like the picture but I also pulled it up more. And the rib issue where you would have to cut (solution 3). I didn't see any issue with root cause #4.

after doing all this, running the fridge for 12hrs and making ice; I still find small buildup of ice in the back. Tiny specs of ice frozen in the opening of the fan. This means that over time the build up will get larger and plug up the opening (1.5years) and I'll be back to this same exact issue.

Thanks samsung. never again.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! You are a wonderful human being sharing your knowledge. My RF263TEA..... Had these issues. I finally got sick of putting ice from the lower maker in the top dispenser and found this article. I refitted the tube as described and am waiting overnight to get the ice out of the maker to reassemble in the am.

ronb said...

Here's my theory after 1.5 years of trial and error. The styrofoam used to insulate the coil is inferior. As we know, water expands as it freezes. With each thaw and freeze of the coil, water seeped into the styrofoam. with each freezing, it expanded into the styrofoam. This would explain why for the first 1-1.5 years all works well. Then with each defrost cycle, the channels within the styrofoam grow in size until water is exposed in the dome over the fan housing. At one point during my investigation I left the ice maker off, ice maker removed, fan removed ice storage container removed. Within a week I had a 1"x1"x3" log of ice perfectly formed on the dome over where the fan would be. The reason the frequency of freeze up accelerates from annual to bi-weekly is the first time the ice maker is removed the coil has to be bent downward, which breaks the seal of the styrofoam around the coil. Thus every defrost cycle leaks water down the styrofoam from the point of coil insertion, down into the vent for future freezing. I injected additional foam insulation (used for filling between studs behind drywall) to extend the foam along the coil so water would drip into the tray of the ice maker during defrost (about 3/4"). This helped with front drips from base of coil. Then I injected an additional 1" of insulation up into the dome over the fan. This got me a month or so before freezing, but turns out even the new foam became saturated with water/freeze/water, resulting in ice forming into the vent again. I then removed the bottom piece of plastic forming the floor of the vent, which prevented ice forming from the bottom up, confirming the top down formation pattern. I've now purchased a 3" in diameter aquarium heater (7.5 volts) to present local heat source to keep ice from forming, since I cannot eliminate the source of the water. It slides right under the fan on the auger assembly unit. It succeeded in preventing the ice formation on the dome for days (while all other hardware [ice maker, fan/auger, ice bucket] removed and ice maker off). I've reassembled everything and hopeful for continued success. If I'm that lucky after a year and a half of my life almost solely devoted to this engineering debacle, I'll fwd more detailed info on the solution.

Anonymous said...

I have found this Samsung Service Bulletin: https://www.encompassparts.com/shop/model_research_docs/?file=/SMG/sb/ServiceBulletin_ASC20151125001.pdf

I am not sure it actually provides a real solution. Has anyone determined that replacing the auger/fan component DA97-12540K, note the "K" suffix revision may be very important, actually solves this problem?

The Invisible said...

That last bulletin regarding the auger/fan is supposed to be the "final" move to fix the issue permanently. When the Geek Squad guy came out the last time (before we returned the fridge), he showed me that bulletin, and said that fix works about 25% of the time, maybe a little better. It has something to do with the ducting in that back portion of the fridge and how the air is circulated. The theory made sense when I looked at it, but with all the other problems, it just doesn't seem worth the effort (and if it only works about 25% of the time, why even bother).

Will said...

@The Invisible - The last time a Samsung authorized tech came out before Samsung agreed to buy back our fridge, he checked all the parts and saw I already have the upgraded auger + fan. I'm having to side with ronb on this one because what he is observing is exactly what I have observed. I was tempted my next go round to inject something into the growing gap in the foam as well, but thankfully LG just released a 4 French Door fridge due out in one month that we purchased as the replacement for our current 4 Door Samsung Flex.

FairwayTrader said...

How did you get Samsung to buy your refrigerator back?

Will said...
@The Invisible - The last time a Samsung authorized tech came out before Samsung agreed to buy back our fridge, he checked all the parts and saw I already have the upgraded auger + fan. I'm having to side with ronb on this one because what he is observing is exactly what I have observed. I was tempted my next go round to inject something into the growing gap in the foam as well, but thankfully LG just released a 4 French Door fridge due out in one month that we purchased as the replacement for our current 4 Door Samsung Flex.

The Invisible said...

@Plano Go To Guy... if you're within the factory warranty, you should be able to make it happen, but it's a pain and takes a lot of work to get Samsung to own up to their own warranty.

Anonymous said...

From all your contacts with Customer Service, Geek Squad, etc., has anyone learned of specific design/assembly/QC changes implemented by Samsung after a certain mftr'g date/time to definitely resolve the dreaded icemaker freeze-up syndrome?

If so, and if I can confirm a mftr'g date of products currently being sold, I might actually roll the dice and buy a new Flex model (RF23J9011SG) w/4 doors, black stainless, that's on sale at Costco.com (with 2-year warranty and 90-day return).

Anyone heard anything?

The Invisible said...

Anonymouse: you posted the same question in "the other" thread on this topic, so here is my reply copy-and-pasted from there...

FWIW, I would never EVER purchase a Samsung large appliance. Ever. If you don't think this refrigerator thing is bad, you should see the issue with the washing machine. There were even more reports of problems, the problem was dangerous, and their "fix" was to PAINT OVER the original settings on the dial to remove the "bedding" setting. Obviously this means you could still put the dial on the setting (and hurt your machine or people).

They may know how to make screens, but they are ABYSMAL with large appliances, and they are even worse at *making things right* for the consumer.

It may sound strange after years of American products sucking in the 80's/90's, but the "original American" brands, even if they aren't being made in America, are the current leaders in large appliance reliability (Whirlpool, KitchenAid, Amana, etc.). Electrolux is great too (on certain items), but you definitely pay a premium.

ronb said...

To follow up with the "I"-man, I'd add the exploding G-phones to the list. Coupled with the Samsung President's corruption charges vis-a-vis the impeached South Korean President, it all seems to point to a corporate culture of "stick it to the consumer to enhance profits". Their engineers are arguably brilliant (the ice maker we've been wrestling with is a phenomenal piece of engineering to the extent it makes ice so quickly in the refrigerator compartment), and thus not stupid enough to engineer in a design defect, unless it could be designed to kick in right after warranty expiration. Lots of repair revenue generation. The cheap styrofoam theory supports this objective in that most of these units don't freeze over until after the warranty expires. Another possible variable is the dual cooling system, designed to maintain higher humidity in the refrigerator to extend shelf life of produce. That extra humidity also feeds the ice maker. Correlation or causation? Don't know, but I say all this to support your conclusion of staying away from Samsung appliances of any kind. Plus the freakin' principle of the whole experience with these bandits!

Sonartech said...

Samsung just refunded my fridge. 4 visits from A & E factory service and they still couldn't get the ice maker to stop freezing up. They replaced all components they could replace, adjusted tubes, filled cracks, lowered water pressure, etc., and it STILL behaves the same way - ice would build-up in the fan cooling duct, eventually plugging it solid... takes about 3 weeks to become dysfunctional. Dumbest design on the planet. Anyway, Samsung gave me a "special consideration", waived my cut power cord requirement and sent me a $3,100 refund check. Oh, and NO, they didn't want the fridge back. I'm supposed to have it "properly disposed of when I buy my replacement".

CannondaleRob said...

I just had my sixth service through Lowe's extended service (thank God I purchased it) and they stated a newly redesigned ice maker came out about 2 weeks ago. You can see it somewhat mimics the foam barrier, but they fill in that wall on the back. They also had some clips and a support that went around the cooling tube.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ikMasEX7JekRnUvs1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mfRzlTx9p5g6pKw03
https://photos.app.goo.gl/lStwpXbJ0Ym1ysVw2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sySmHUaSkWJbPgN62
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LKf62zQ58mZGWWhy1

The Invisible said...

@Rob: Interesting. Let's hope it's an *actual* fix for all those people who've spent thousands on a fridge that should work like it's supposed to! And hopefully Samsung will *give* it to all those poor people who are past their warranty period, since Samsung KNOWS they were selling garbage in the first place.

samsungFAIL said...

@cannondaleRob, Sorry if I'm dense, but I don't understand how the new icemaker will fix it. Isn't the problem the area behind the icemaker, where the drain and styrofoam is? Is the new part a whole unit including the back section, or just the part that you can slide out? I don't know how to get out any parts, other than the part that makes the cubes that you can slide out.

I haven't contacted Samsung because it seems futile, my first repair was suing an extended warranty provided my my credit card. Since then I have been diy de-icing it. I did contact the lawyers who are starting a class action. I would like to get a new improved part if it exists. This de-icing is brutal in that small space. Is there a good email address to use for Samsung??

My "fixes" seem to last shorter and shorter each time.

Anonymous said...

@Rob: Yes, very interesting. Clearly another iteration of the two major components that are different in appearance from my original components. the change to the ice maker water fill chute may eliminate or reduce splash back that is at least part of the problem. I am reluctant to replace them until we hear from you again regarding success or failure. Please be sure to provide updates! Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Found another forum that has related information. Nothing about the new parts yet.

https://partsdr.com/blog/samung-da97-12317a-ice-maker-removal-instructions/

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to let everyone know that searspartsdirect.com has ALL schematic part breakouts for ALL types of appliances. All you need to enter is your model number. You can then easily find the part and part number. Hopes this helps out.

SC Resident said...

So I'm guessing if my piece of junk Samsung fridge is out of warranty, I'm out of luck. Been dealing with this crappy ice maker for a year now.

SC Resident said...

So if the warranty is out, we just have to deal with Samsung's inadequacy - correct?
We don't even use the ice maker anymore b/c we are tired of cleaning up the pool of water on the ground every week.

Anonymous said...

Many thanks to the blog owner! I recently learned of a class action lawsuit against Samsung for the defective ice makers in refrigerator models listed in the TSB at the top of this blog. I just emailed the attornies and will post any follow up information I learn once I speak with them.

CannondaleRob said...

@samsungFail, you were absolutely correct and are not dense. The newly designed icemaker DID NOT fix the problem. I've got a fresh batch of icicles hanging off the ice maker, the standard half cup of water and broken ice coming out in the morning, the fan was making noise, and I knew it was about to freeze up again. When I was scheduling my seventh service with Lowe's extended service, I went postal and asked for management again, as I did on every call. I calmly stated my case and the manager stated it was no longer economically viable to continue the maintenance of this fridge and they were already upside down in the cost. They refunded the complete purchase price and tax of the fridge. I will no longer own any Samsung product again. @The Invisible, completely agreed. The sad thing is I was in CostCo the other day and saw a new Samsung fridge for sale with a through the door ice maker. I see absolutely NO difference in the parts from mine. It is a ticking @#%$ bomb for everyone who purchases it, and they don't care!

Anonymous said...

Spoke to the law firm pursuing a class action case against Samsung. You can read more here:

https://kohnswift.com/2017/03/16/ksg-files-class-action-complaint-against-samsung-for-refrigerators-with-defective-ice-makers/

The paralegal with whom I spoke is named Rachel. Here is the link she sent for the questionnaire they need filled out:

https://goo.gl/forms/iYwPyEXt1VaTgVnr1

In the meantime, I had Samsung's certified service folks out and they gave me an estimate of about $600 to replace the ice maker, multiple parts, diagnostic fees, and labor. I called Samsung back and suggested they cover the costs since the equipment is defective. So far, they've left me a VM that they will cover the cost of the parts which would leave me with diagnostic and labor costs. Going to make one more run at them tomorrow to get them to eat the whole cost and will post back.

Best of luck!

Anonymous said...

Update: Samsung made a "one-time" accommodation and covered all the parts and labor. The tech replaced just about everything having to do with the ice maker: assembly, motor, clips, and tray. I have put in a claim with my credit card company under their extended warranty program to reimburse me for the $100 diagnostic/service call fee.

Guess we'll see if this solves it, but wish everyone else the best with theirs.

Anonymous said...

There's a new sb out on this. I've been battling the problem for a couple years now, and still haven't found an answer to it. I've installed a couple of the kits and am waiting for feedback on them. I just saw a class action, but you know how those go, the lawyers get rich and the consumers get $5 each. Kohn is the name if you want to google it. I don't believe there is a fix for it. Frigidaire went through something similar years ago but quit making them when they saw the problems.

Anonymous said...

So I got Samsung to cover all the parts and labor to replace the ice maker. I got stuck with the $100 diagnostic/service call, but I turned that in to my extended warranty service through Citibank. So far the fix seems to be working, but I've not had all the symptoms many on this blog have suffered. My big issue was that ice was melting in the ice maker and dripping out the shoot. It would also periodically freeze up and I'd have to knock the ice out to get it going again.

My suggestion is when you speak to Samsung, you keep your cool and suggest that since this is a known defect and that there's a pending lawsuit against them, you would expect them to cover the costs. I used their certified repair company (Service Quick, Inc.). While they may have been more expensive for the initial diagnostic call, I think it helped getting Samsung to pay for it since this company is well versed in doing these repairs.

KSG said...

Hello again all. We continue to litigate our class action lawsuit against Samsung. We appreciate the tremendous response from everyone. Due to the amount of inquiries we have been receiving, we have streamlined our intake process. If you or someone you know has a Samsung refrigerator with an ice maker that is not working, please contact us via our secured form found here: https://goo.gl/forms/tMWtitTshhGANbz53. We will provide updates as our lawsuit progresses. Many thanks! – KS&G Staff

ronb said...

three comments today received via email and linking back to this blog do not show up on this blog (actually nothing since 8/21/17). Can this be repaired? thx!

The Invisible said...

Comments that are not spam are approved daily. If there was a (real person) comment, it should be here! Are you looking at the wrong thread? Are the comments in this one: http://www.theinvisibleblog.com/2016/01/how-to-defrost-samsung-ice-maker.html ?

Anonymous said...

I'm holding out hope that one of these recent "fixes" will actually rectify the situation. I've only had to defrost the ice maker a couple of times so far this year, but I fully expect it to be required more often as the refrigerator ages.

I'll keep checking back here to see if anyone has a success story!

Unknown said...

I finally got Samsung to budge and they agreed to cover the cost of the hardware. I'll pay for the labor but I'll take anything at this point.

Just make sure you mention you've seen the service bulletins from 11/15 that says the auger/motor unit must be replaced.

Anonymous said...

Well that's a hope, haven't really heard anything from the lawsuit. I've been taking the time to really dry out the styrofoam when I defrost after I read the discussion about it. It has extended the time between defrosting a bit. Not a fix but I've gone from every 2-3 weeks to 4-5 weeks. I need to tackle Samsung on this better but I just haven't had the time to sit on a phone. Maybe we should start an intense social media campaign....or has that been tried?

Thanks to everyone who keeps posting on here.

ronb said...

I installed a 7.5 volt 3” in diameter aquarium heater under the fan and am on my 4th month of ice making with just a little water sometimes. But while the vent in back stays partially open the rest of the maker is covered in ice! But I think I’m onto something.

Jim Blackwood said...

In my case (and probably many others) the problem is the air passage from the fan out to the icemaker. Once that fills up with ice you're done. No more airflow and though it will continue making ice for awhile eventually the frost will take over and it will quit. My plan to remedy this is to go to the appliance repair supply store and buy a small generic defrost heater that will fit in that opening. I think keeping the airflow clear is the key to the whole defrost problem.

This is the little horizontal window below the freon loop. All of the air from the fan goes through here.

ronb said...

@jimblackwood: I agree completely. could you provide part # for heater? how did you wire it in? thanks!

JB said...

The parts guy didn't have anything but an online search could turn up something, even a simple nichrome wire should work. It would need to be wired into the defrost circuit I think so we'd have to identify which wires and what the voltage is. If you run across anything please post.

Jim

Eddie said...

AS far as the styrofoam goes, if you look at the updated versions of the auger assembly they have removed the styrofoam and put a neoprene sleeve on the pipe. I am going to get this insulation which you can get a home improvement store in plumbing that is used to insulate pipes and then carve out the styrofoam enough so the foam will fit. The updated versions have a heater around the pipe also, but that could be tricky to power.

Eddie said...

I took the auger assembly apart today. The pipe that runs through the styrofoam has a heater wrapped around it. If you were to get the foam pipe insulation and secure it with a zip tie then you will have part of the mod done that Samsung did on the updated auger assembly.

ronb said...

Hey Eddie, any pix/process steps you can share?thx!

Anonymous said...

We have the RF28HMEDBWW. Like the frige. HATE the ice-maker issues. For just under $3,000 we expected avoiding little annoying issues like ice-makers that stop working. We bought ours through Bill Smith Appliance who came out to "fix" the ice-maker three times while under warranty. Ice-maker failed again two weeks ago. We called Bill Smith and they said our frige is 4 weeks, 6 days out of warranty so, we'll need to pay $200 just to have a diagnostic call, plus the return trip with all parts and all labor. Estimated total cost to us..$825. So...we're DONE with Bill Smith Appliance and with Samsung products..period. Looks like an LG in our future.

Gregg said...

Has anyone who has installed the DA97-12540 K or N revision ASSY CASE AUGER MOTOR had success with correction this problem? Samsung has made quite a few changes to it and I am probably going to try installing one. They are only about $140, so it might be worth a try before I retire this refrigerator.

Aaron said...

I just pulled mine out again, it is the K revision, problem still exists.

Gregg said...

Arron, sorry to hear that. I was about to order one. What model is your fridge? Mine is the RF23J9011. I was also going to have a Samsung certified tech come out today and try to fix it, but I cancelled the visit when I spoke over the phone with him. He had planned to seal the gap, which I know I don't need and when I asked about the auger he said he could put in a K revision but the part cost around $250 (twice what I can get it for) and the labor would be $200. $450 is far too much for a "maybe" fix! I had heard some people had success with the K revision with my model, so I still might order one and replace it myself. Anybody else had success with the K revision auger?

Gregg said...

Update: Interesting turn of events. Based on a prior post here (thanks very much for sharing your experience!), I decided to try and get Samsung to pay for this service call and appear to have been successful. I told them I wanted to talk to a supervisor and when they asked why I said we all know about the ice maker problem and the class action lawsuit regarding it and that since it is clearly a design problem that Samsung should pay for the call in spite of me being past warranty. Note that since I had made prior calls regarding this problem it may have had some bearing on their decision. In any case, they have agreed to pay for parts and labor. I will apparently have to pay for the $100 service call from Service Quick. So, if you have this issue, persist and insist and perhaps you can get some "accommodation" as they call it. It may not fix the problem, but at least it gets me on record as having attempted to fix it so it may be possible to get part of the class action settlement or have the fridge replaced/refunded via my credit card extended warranty if it comes to that. Good luck. I will update regarding the results of the repair in a few weeks.

Gregg said...

Update: Tech was here Monday and replaced the auger with a K revision and also replaced the icemaker. No charge whatsoever. The tech said without Samsung's "accommodation" it would have cost over $700. He also said he had been doing around 20 ice maker related repairs per week and the success rate has been in the high 90% range. The refer is cranking out ice like it did when it was new and no indications of icing up yet.

samsungFAIL said...

WHO should I contact at Samsung to get this repair that Gregg write of???? I have not officially contacted Samsung about this yet. I had noticed it at about 4-5 months when I ran out of ice one day. I thought it was a fluke. When it was about 1.5 year old, I had the module assembly replaced and it was sealed by the tech. The bill was over $400. I was reimbursed by an extended warranty through my cc. It started icing over again a few months later (after extended warranty period) and I have just been living with it. Now every 2 weeks I'm in there bruising my arm trying to scrape ice off,or spending an hour with cups of boiling water or a steamer. I never called Samsung because it seemed pointless. Not calling a service guy, because seems like $ would be thrown away. Rather throw away the fridge. I'd sell it, but how much $ would i get when I tell them about the icemaker? And they'd wonder who sells a 4 year old fridge for no reason, so.... Who do I contact and what should I say?? You can respond by email if you want.(is there a way to do that?)

Jasper said...

I am trying to disassemble some of the parts of my samsung ice maker machine to check and troubleshoot the problem but i got no luck. I tried to call their technical support but they advise me to bring the ice maker machine to their nearest office.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for keeping the updates coming. I check the comments here every couple of days to see if anyone is getting a real resolution. As soon as there's a winner, I'll finally spring for the repair!

samsungFAIL said...

to Anonymous poster on 11/28...looks like the latest solution is $700. I woulnd't put that much $ into this machine, who knows what goes next...It seems the drain or fan gets iced up...I'm sure that is not helping the overall health of the fridge...Will we get another 5-10 years before something else goes wrong? If I wasn't already dealing with multiple health problems with aging parents/in-laws I would call and take on Samsung, I just don't have the fight in me right now....

Anonymous said...

I definitely won't pay $700 for the fix, but I'm willing to pay the $100 deductible for my home warranty to get it repaired, or would pay for the part myself (think it's around $150).

Just need some proof that the "fix" is an actual fix

Gregg said...

Update: The K revision auger and the latest version of the ice maker continue to make more ice than this refrigerator has ever made and there have been absolutely no problems with icing up, so far. The ice has not been soggy and no water is dripping from ice room, nor are icicles forming on the ice maker. My refrigerator model is RF23J9011SR, results with other refrigerators may not be similar.

As it turned out I was charged nothing by Samsung for this repair. I had contacted them previously several times to complain and get phone support, but had never had any service performed prior to this. During this latest round, I was very nice to the phone support people while adamantly insisting that the problem was obviously due to a well known design flaw that was the subject of a class action lawsuit. I kept asking for executive customer support, but never spoke with anyone in that department, however, I was put on hold while the person I was speaking with apparently did speak with them. In the end, they gave me a one time zero charge "accommodation" to make this repair. I suspect that it is very important to be nice to the phone support people to get them to really listen and solve the problem.

I am hopeful it is actually the true final fix and will update my results here again in the future. I suggest that if you have this problem, you follow this same procedure. Also be sure that you get a tech that knows how to fix it and insist on the K revision auger AND a new icemaker. I spoke with (interviewed) mine on the phone before he arrived. I think both of these parts are crucial to success, at least that's what my tech said and he claimed a 98% success rate. He had been doing around 20 replacements per week.

Sonartech said...

I'm on my 2nd Rev K Auger and I still ice-up every two weeks. The ice maker was changed several months ago, but it made no difference. Both parts didn't get changed at the same time, however, so I'm not sure if there's more synchronicity going on between the two parts or not...

I'm waiting a few more weeks to start pulling the trigger on my Lowe's warranty options...

samsungFAIL said...

Gregg, Where do you live? Maybe i can get your same tech! I'm in NJ

Anonymous said...

So I've chased this for a very long time and I'm sad but also happy to report I finally fixed it. I had sent anonymous posts before with links to Samsung PDFs etc. I've replaced icemaker, motherboard, auger, water valves, sealed the edge of the ice room along the side, pulled the fill hose out and reset it, did multiple things to avoid water leaking from the fill area.

In the end, I had overlooked part of the sealing that is required. The pictures from the Samsung PDF indicate sealant along the lower left of the ice box. Well, there's a huge gap in the back along the right side too! I found this while contemplating removing the icebox entirely. After getting sealant and going over all joints, inside and out, using light and air to make sure there was no leaks at all letting air into the ice room, problem solved!

It appears that over time, the sealant that is used from the factory will shrink and cause large gaps to form allowing moist air to circulate inside the ice room causing more build up than the normal defrost cycle can get rid of.

I hope my remains fixed as my next option is to buy a replacement refrigerator.

ronb said...

Anonymous: how long has your fix been working?

samsungFAIL said...

I finally got so mad a couple weeks ago when I couldn't get my ice bucket out. I called Samsung and I was ready for a fight! I was transferred to the warranty dept who said they would do a one-time accommodation and send someone out. The person on the phone mentioned they would be installing some clips. I found that odd. My tech finally came today. He was a nice young man without a lot of experience. He says he just had training recently as they have it every year. He came prepared to replace the icemaker part only, but I had some of the post printed out and expressed concern about the K revision auger. Don't think he knew what "K revision" meant and said my auger seemed fine based on some light that was blinking properly, but I told him that I was also concerned the auger motor and fan had been stressed by getting frozen over so often. He had the part in his truck so he put that in for me as well. Not sure any of this will help as the parts don't seem that different. The biggest visual difference is the side of the auger/fan does not have a block of Styrofoam covering the whole side but instead has some foam or rubber insulation wrapped around the tube itself. Fingers crossed that it works and happy that Samsung is recognizing the problem. It should be fie for 30 days, that's how long the repair guy says its warrantied for!

Anonymous said...

I haven't sealed the rest of the seams around the icemaker enclosure yet, though I'm not sure why I didn't do so when I sealed the portion from the technical bulletin.

I'll try that over the holidays (as the fan in there is getting increasingly louder, so I'm expecting failure soon), but I'm still concerned that:

1. This will only help temporarily again
2. Even if it's part of the solution, I would still need some sort of combination of new auger/ icemaker/something to go along with it and I've still got all original parts

Gregg said...

@SamsungFail. Sorry just now checking in. I’m in California, so I don’t think you could get my tech, 😀. Also I noticed you got the same parts I did, so there’s a good chance you’re fixed for good now. Update for my fix is in next post.

Gregg said...

Update: My icemaker continues to function flawlessly. See my prior posts for details regarding my one time accommodation from Samsung to replace both the ice maker and auger units. Both these newly revised components were modified considerably from the originals. No freeze ups, no dripping, and plenty of good ice being made. This was on a counter depth French door model RF23J9011SA. Your results may vary. No more update posts will be made unless a failure occurs. Good,luck. Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

ronb said...

well predictably after two years of bending the coil up and down every couple of weeks (probably > 100 times) to remove ice maker and defrost: first freezer, then ice maker, then refrigerator went hot. all refrigerant leaked over 48 hour period. coils scheduled to be replaced in fridge and freezer, after which I anticipate refrigerant will continue to leak. will keep posted.

ronb said...

no leak detected from two coils, so leak inside cabinet of fridge, thus not repairable, so getting new one under 5 year warranty. Will believe when I see!🤞

Anonymous said...

I just have to thank the author of this post along with everyone else who added comments or thoughts here! Of course, our refrigerator/freezer is only 8 months out of warranty. Our icemaker started freezing and dripping water about two weeks ago. When we called Samsung about it they flipped it to their "authorized" repair company to call us and schedule an appointment with us to look at it.
Of course, they initially said they wouldn't cover any of the repairs (not even the $100 diagnostic service call.
When we found this blog and everyone's comments I called Samsung and complained firmly about their earlier treatment of our repair call and lack of covering. I cited the service bulletin mentioned here (which PROVES Samsung knows it's a problem) and even the class-action lawsuit. After about 15 minutes Samsung changed their tune and are NOW COVERING ALL REPAIR COSTS/LABOR as "a one-time warranty exception." Thanks so much for your information. I'll update the group on how the repairs turn out! - Risco

CannondaleRob said...

Well, the filter housing just went out and I had enough. After seven attempts by Lowe's extended service to fix my ice maker, getting a refund after complaining to high heaven, I wasn't going to put another cent into this fridge. I'm now own a new Whirlpool fridge, but I had fun with the Samsung on the way out! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_kP93ldB5s&feature=youtu.be

The Invisible said...

Hilarious. :-D

Fast Eddie 52 said...

I finally got my icemaker by replacing the auger assembly, main board, and then the icemaker itself. My problem was the ir led sensor for the ice bin. I could tell from the diagnostics that the refrigerator thought the bin was full but so it would not make ice. If you pushed the reset button it would make one tray of ice perfectly. I don't know if I needed the new main board but that was the order I replaced them. The board made no difference. I spent about $250 for all the parts buying on ebay. They are all the latest versions.

I found the ir leds on ebay after I fixed it. One person said that it fixes the problem.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS5&_nkw=IR+Break+Beam+Sensor+-+5mm+LEDs&_sacat=0

Anonymous said...

After trying the silicone, water tube adjustment, etc. fixes on my all-original equipment with no success, I finally decided to just make a claim against my home warranty to fix the ice maker. The tech came out yesterday and is ordering all the new parts and is going to redo the silicone with the "official" Samsung silicone.

Apparently he's familiar with this issue, so I'm cautiously optimistic that it will at least make things better for a while.

Doug said...

I must add my thanks for this post and all the comments. I was experiencing the soft/wet ice and water dripping during dispensing until ten days ago, when the ice maker quit altogether. I ended up on the Samsung Community board, where there was a great deal of Samsung-bashing, but I noticed that there were a number of posts from Samsung people requesting that a poster private-message model and serial numbers to them. I asked how to do that, and received a pm from Samsung. I explained what had happened, provided my model number (RF263BEAESR French door), said that I had tried the steps in the SB, and that I was aware of the class action suit. The support person didn't bat an eyelash, and said that since our fridge was "only" out of warranty by six months, she would authorize a one-time courtesy service call. The tech came Monday, replaced the ice maker and augur assembly, finished the caulking that I couldn't reach, and trimmed the water line tube. He was quite thorough, and even tightened the door handles that I hadn't realized were loose. So far, so good -- no dripping, and the ice is harder than it was. I'm a satisfied customer for now, and greatly appreciative of the irritation and frustration so many others have gone through to try to get Samsung to pay attention. In my case, at least, they are, and I thank you all.

Anonymous said...

Doug, Tell me more about this class action lawsuit...

Also, I can't seem to get mine into test mode. Any suggestions?

samsungFAIL said...

I got Samsung to do a one time courtesy at the end of January. They came prepared to change out the icemaker but I got the guy to also do the auger assembly since he had one with him. All was well for about 2 months, then I noticed ice build up again. By the end of the third month there was enough ice that I was contemplating having to pull the icemaker and steam it out BEFORE the ice became mushy and watery. There was a 30 day "warranty" on the repair...

Suddenly yesterday, end of month three, the fridge started knocking loudly. It was not a healthy noise. It would stop when I opened the door. I steamed out the ice maker compartment putting a lot of steam to the openings in the back, but didn't remove it. No luck. Finally after opening and closing it the noise suddenly got worse for a few seconds, then improved, but still not normal. Further research told me the fan was behind the center panel, not behind the icemaker like I thought. Eventually got the panel off and there was a huge block of ice. It was located about where the word "plus" is on the back panel "twin cooling plus". Just to the right of where the fan sits. I guess the fan was either stuck or hitting it. Had to steam it off and it was a pretty big solid chunk, maybe 4" X4" x 1" deep..This cannot be normal....Did not enjoy having to empty the fridge at 10:30 at night...

I'm hoping it took 3 years to build up and that I'll be good for a while. Thinking it's time to sell it. Feel guilty passing it off to someone else, but I can't afford just to junk it either....This is hands down the worst appliance I have ever owned!

Gregg said...

Bad news regarding my “one time accommodation” free ice maker and auger replacement. See above for my related posts. After several months of trouble free ice making, my Samsung French Door fridge once again requires periodic ice maker manual defrosting due to icing. A defrost has so far only lasted around 6 weeks, which was better than before, but this is still unacceptable. Tonight, I defrosted it a bit longer as I could see lots of water dripping out of the fan opening on the auger case. I defrosted it until water stopped dripping then wiped it dry. I had to use a flashlight to see this. I believe that this icing is a simple, yet unrepairable, problem where every automatic defrost cycle, water condenses in the area around the auger fan then freezes when the ice maker returns to normal mode. Once any ice is established in the fan area, the problem spirals out of control since the defrost is not long enough to fully melt the ice build up and it grows geometrically. Perhaps a really long defrost like I just did will extend the time between defrosts. I am totally convinced that this is an significant unrepairable design flaw and the multiple service bulletin suggestions and ice maker / auger redesigns will never solve it. I am hopeful the class action lawsuit will satisfactorily provide the victims with fair compensation.

Gregg said...

I had the ice maker issue and it was fully resolved, see above. However, somehow the Energy Saver option was enabled and it started freezing up again. I turned it off and it has been working flawlessly ever since. MAKE SURE YOUR ENERGY SAVER MODE IS TURNED OFF!

KSG said...

Thank you for the overwhelming response in regards to our class action law suit against Samsung concerning the ice maker problem. We appreciate the tremendous amount of responses from everyone. Due to the amount of inquiries we have been receiving, we have streamlined our intake process. As such, please fill out the contact sheet here https://goo.gl/SuUpcS, instead of contacting us directly through Info@kohnswift.com.

We know everyone is patiently waiting for updates on this case. As soon as our firm has any developments, we will be sure to update you via email or on our website.

Please continue monitoring our website at: www.Kohnswift.com

Once again, thank you!

Anonymous said...

There is a newer service bulletin on the Samsung ice maker 2017.
https://www.scribd.com/document/326002649/Samsung-FDBM-Refrigerators-Service-Bulletin-Ice-Makers-Freezing-Over

Anonymous said...

I received this fridge as a hand-me-down. My dad melted the plastic housing that holds the refrigerant pipe and styrofoam. Any idea where I can find this? It's the last step in repairing this, but I can't find it on any parts sites. To be clear, this is the styrofoam that the auger assembly sits under. If anyone knows where to get it or a good workaround, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Unknown said...

Thanks for the information. Samsung should be ASHAMED for putting this product in the field. Everyone who bought one should be contacted for a factory repair/replace. That is how you keep customers. As it is, I would be very hard press to buy another Samsung. And, in case anyone from Samsung reads this, I have a 65" TV, microwave, washer and dryer - all Samsung. I guess my next purchase will go elsewhere.

Unknown said...

I agree! I have written off the Samsung brand completely. I will never buy ANYTHING Samsung ever again. Shame on you Samsung!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone been able to fix this ice maker permanently? It sounds like all fixes have only had a minimal effect, and have only been temporary...

The Invisible, did your ice maker freeze back up after all the repairs/modifications you made? Thanks!

The Invisible said...

Mine was fixed "as much as it could be" by Samsung, but still kept freezing up. I finally got Best Buy to refund my money under the Lemon Law --or maybe it was just because I had bought the Geek Squad extended warranty, and once they send someone out more than two or three times they refund the purchase (it's been a while).

Anonymous said...

I am almost there with you "The Invisible". I own a Samsung 65" flat screen, washer, dryer, microwave, frig and my Galaxy phone just broke. Given the problems with the ice maker on a 1 year old frig I would be hard pressed to reward Samsung with future business. That is, unless they decide to step up, admit they put out a bad product, and make this right. (hint, hint)

The Invisible said...

I'm actually not the one who said I wouldn't buy *anything* Samsung. I think they make good panels and phones, but I will never *ever* purchase a Samsung appliance again.

Unknown said...

Continuously icing up I regularly defrost Samsung junk time to use the old ice cube trays

Colorado said...

We purchased our Samsung refrigerator model RF28JBEDBSR in Nov. 2016, but had to wait til Jan. 2017 for it to arrive on a slow boat from China (Literally, that's what we were told!). It started having icemaker issues about 6 months after warranty expired. (i.e. freezing over, dripping from dispenser, much like others have experienced.) Contacted Samsung, and miraculously after several contacts with them and trying all of their suggestions, was connected with someone that was able to give us a "one time courtesy" replacement of the entire icemaker unit, two clips and a gasket that was supposed to correct the problem. It was replaced in Aug. 2018, and all seemed fine until about 3-4 months after the replacement, when the same symptoms returned, maybe even worse than before. It has been almost a year since replacement and it is worse than ever; have to chip the ice buildup frequently, the drip is so bad that I'm afraid it will fill the drip reservoir and run to the hardwood floor if I don't constantly wipe it up. I like the refrigerator, but the constant on-going issues with the icemaker really has us frustrated to say the least. Totally disappointed in Samsung (along with hundreds of others); the problem has been going on for years and yet they still are producing the obviously defective/poor design of the icemaker units. Don't know what else to do, unable to talk to anyone at Samsung....

Gary D said...

Hey man. First of all thanks for doing what you do. So my issue is that when I'm getting iced oftentimes, there are little black pieces of what I think is plastic, almost like a garbage bag type of consistency either on my ice or in my drink. I'm fine to just take them out but I have a small child and I noticed a lot of black bag type small pieces in his sippy cup. Any thoughts? I'm willing to replace whatever you think the issue is.

KT said...

RF23HCEDBSR here. Like many, my icemaker worked great the first year, then froze up. Have been defrosting about every month or two now to fix it.

Accidentally warped the back piece that the auger assembly slides into. I removed it and discovered it is part number DA61-08180 and no one seems to have that part available anywhere ugh.

In the meantime, have had exact same experience as Ronb regarding a smooth dome and ice log in the styrofoam. I'm tempted to seal it when something water proof instead of foam and see if that stops water from going back there but an worried it'll be too permanent.

That tube of silicone caulking used to seal the icemaker compartment might be used here. Hmm...

Anonymous said...

I got 50% refund on my 5 year old fridge. Filed with njbbb. There's they Facebook group called Samsungrefrigerator recall USA now. Join the group to get specifics on how to file your own claim

Un said...

Possible solution!!!!!!!!!
Tilt your fridge back 1/4 inch or so......
Seems to work according to the comments section!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8SZrGZq_60

Anonymous said...

Someone asked how to remove the icemaker.
This is a great video showing how easy it is to remove ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89RPiWxBcCg

Fred F said...

our Samsung JUST WENT OUT OF WARRANTY. IT SUDDENLY IS FROST OR ICING UP. i HAVE ADD SOME SUBLIMINAL THIN RUBBER GASKET. HAS IMPROVED IT, BUT ABOUT SIX WEEKS I MUST DEFROST AGAIN. I NOW HAVE ADDED A THIN RUBBER GASKET TO IN EFFECT MAKE FACE OF GASKET HOPEFULLY SEAL TIGHTER. what IS NEXT MOST PROBABLE CAUSE SINCE WORKED PERFECT FOR NEARLY SIX YEARS. HAS SAMSUNG RESIGNED IT SO IF I BUY NEW REPLACEMENT THE DESIGN DEFECT IS FIXED?

ANY IDEAS I NEED YOUR BEST THOUGHTS BASED ON EXPERIENCE?

Unknown said...

Hi, any help with the Smart fridge variant? The buttons are different on the ice and water side.

Anonymous said...

We have issues with fan noise, ice buildup under crisper drawers, ice in the sensor holes (4) ... model RF265ABBP with just 2 refrig drs and a bottom freezer dr. No water/ice maker on panel door. Not ice maker issues, but when I let defrost and melt over several hours, and remove the inside back panel, the entire inside heating element and coils are covered with ice. I have replaced the Temp sensor,Thermostat protector and added a metal clip that directs water into drain. All was good, hero again ... but after about 6 months, same noise and same icing up issues.
In studying this issue, it seems that the water flow from condensation (?) freezes before it can go down the drain. I have seen where service techs have engineered a piece of wire that connects to the heating element and follows down the exit drain, but this seems like a band aid approach. I will look into the source of the water to see if it might be coming from the ice water line.

Any thoughts ?

Mike said...

I had the same issue with mine. Being a little inventive I installed a small usb strip heater in the ice maker compartment and put it on a timer to activate twice a week for 30 minutes. Since doing this the problem has been solved.

ronb said...

Hey Mike, where exactly did you place the strip heater?

Sonartech said...

Also, can you provide some pictures/details about your modification?

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I am trouble-shooting my Samsung icemaker issues, and I have a random question. Can anyone tell me if there is supposed to be a considerable gap between the plastic housing and the water "chute" that helps direct water into the ice tray (this is on the plastic that seems to house the foam and coil)? I inherited the fridge after buying my house, and the ice maker has never worked properly. Wondering if the plastic housing is warped.

KT said...

So I've done everything short of replacing the auger motor and fan unit. It still freezes up every few months.

I've taken this apart well over a dozen times do I'm intimately familiar with the internals.

The issue, as someone else pointed out, occurs during the defrost/deice cycle. When the unit heats up to defrost, water drips down and off and also runs down and along the cooling element and goes towards the rear.

When operating correctly, the water should drip off the cooling element eventually into the drip tray and go out the drip tube.

Those two metallic clips that clip onto the heating element are meant to stop the water from running back into the fan area and instead cause the water to drip down.

That doesn't work.

So instead, slowly you form a block of ice in the back above the fan and out the vent hole. Because the vent is now blocked, the ice towards the front of the ice cube storage box melts ever so slightly and the cubes freeze together and you end up getting mush when you try to dispense ice because it grinds the ice.

I'm really not sure how to correct this design flaw. A better defrost design surely would resolve this. Maybe even a longer heating cycle would be better but I don't think so. Fundamentally, the problem is that water is able to run along the top towards the back and form a dome of ice above the fan. This indicates to me that the problem is that the water doesn't drip off.

Anonymous said...

Less common, but not unique! The infrared LED (above the auger motor) has probably failed. When the IR sensor (facing the rear emitter) can’t see the infrared light, it reports “bin full” and stops making ice :(
I refused to pay $$$ for a new auger assembly just for that 5 cent led, so I wired up a bare IR component, potted in silicone to replace the failed part.
Use your phone camera to check the LED. Infrared looks faint pink/purple on your phone.

Anonymous said...

On Samsung Refrigerator Model RF4287HARS, ice maker works but when pressing Lever 1 (ice dispenser), no ice comes out, only water like when you press Lever 2 for water. Checker ice maker tray and box for blockages, as well as dispenser tunnel, all clear. Any ideas for fixing ?

Anonymous said...

OMG, sir can u give me the specifics on the "bare IR component" u used? I understand ur saying pretty much any bare IR component will do, but since there's so many out there i'd rather just get one that for sure worked. Now for people who are having the only 1 bucket of ice dropped after resetting ice maker & u've confirmed (using ur cell phone camera) that the IR fill sensor is still good, then pull ur ice bucket out & manually with ur hand turn the auger knob on the back of ice bucket. What was happening with mine (before the IR sensor went out on mie) when i manually turned the auger knob on the back side of the bucket after a few turns the ice would get jammed up so bad, that's when I noticed a hairline crack on backside of the bucket that would just literally split open and shifted the back wall of ice bucket which interrupted IR signal to receiver making ice maker think it was full!! $5,500 P.O.S.

Anonymous said...

I have a similar problem now with my Samsung fridge ice maker completely frozen over on the inside. It cannot make ice because of the heavy frost. Samsung fridge RF263BEAEBC, 9 years old. I can remove the ice holder bin for now. Is there any benefit to simply pulling out the ice holder bin, laying down some towels and letting it defrost by itself with the fridge doors closed? Or, better said, will this even work? If the forced defrost is my only option then I'll do it but thought I'd ask before I press those buttons.